Opening up the “Black Box Diaries” with Shiori Ito

Content Warning: Discussion surrounding rape, misogyny

Ito Shiori made waves in 2017 when she accused Yamaguchi Noriyuki of raping her in 2015. Following her suit, the Japanese journalist also published her memoir “Black Box” detailing the difficulties in proving her case in Japan’s legal system. Ito’s decision to go public with her accusations, especially against a veteran journalist known as former-Prime Minister Abe Shinzo’s biographer, attracted considerable online backlash against her. Eight years on, Ito captures that experience in “Black Box Diaries,” her autobiographical documentary, which premiered at the 2024 Sundance Film Festival. The film has been shown in 50 different festivals in more than 30 countries, but still not in Japan.

Anime Feminist Editor Chiaki Hirai spoke to Ito during her stop in San Francisco during the San Francisco International Film Festival in April of 2024.Ito, who had attended high school in rural Kansas and now resides in the U.K., conducted the interview in English.

---

So, I wanted to ask real quick, are you secretly recording this interview as well or?

Do you want to know?

Ito slowly reaches for the collar of her shirt. She stops and grins.

No.

Nah, I would absolutely do that too, so.

Okay, let’s get started then.

Yeah, lets.

So my first question is that your accusations in 2017 predate … the #MeToo movement, and you said that it didn’t really have as big of an impact in Japan, but how did it impact you?

It impacted me in a big way. It was really the same time when I published my book in October, and I remember that the news came in, when I just saw my book in a bookstore and I was so happy about it, but then about the same time, I started receiving e-mails from women, very cold and saying that they’re very ashamed of me as a Japanese woman.
But then on the other side of the world, I knew there were other women who’s showing solidarity, so it meant a lot to me.

And Japan is really- I mean everywhere, I think is similar in a way, but Japan especially cares what others think from (the) outside, or especially America—what’s going on in America. So even the #MeToo movement was such an American thing for Japanese.

I think, slowly that impacted media in Japan, even though it wasn’t a big movement in Japan. So yeah, if #MeToo movement didn’t happen, … I think I’d have a more bumpier journey for sure. So yeah.

And one thing I’ve also noticed you mentioned, women wrote to you, but also in terms of Japanese right-wing people on the Internet are especially vocal, it seems, … but how did that impact your work while you were going through this?

My work, I mean it impacted my private life. My work, of course. Generally, I felt not safe living in Japan, so I relocated myself to U.K. And for work-wise, it somehow worked better, because as an independent journalist, independent documentary filmmaker, it’s not very common thing in Japan as well.

And also reporting about Japan, in Japan, it’s a bit harder if you’re not a part of a big media (outlet)—especially reporting a controversial story.

So in the end, it worked out well, but as a journalist, I didn’t feel comfortable getting online anymore. And still today, I can’t open e-mail sometimes—I have an amazing assistant who does that stuff for me—so it impacted me in a big way. But, it was all in Japanese, so somehow I could tune out myself sometimes, if I think if I’m stepping out or have a distance away physically from Japan.

But yeah, it’s really sad, because I think they often say 反日 (anti-Japanese)?

I love Japan. That’s why I’m doing my work.

I’m like, hello?

So yeah, really, what’s struggling in me is that, I don’t really have a space to talk with them and see where they’re coming from, why they think that way, because it’s all online and very violent. So I wish I had the chance to open up and talk, and see what they’re saying. So as a journalist, that was something I felt like I wish I could do, but I haven’t done.

So you say you love Japan, and you’ve been living abroad. You’re all over the place now, but do you feel your Japanese identity is stronger or do you feel you’re becoming more of an international person because of it?

Well, I completely miss rice. So I really feel like, “Oh, I’m Japanese.”

But I actually don’t know what the identity of Japanese is. I never really- I’m so ADHD. So I never felt like I was fitting into (the) Japanese public school system as well.

And so, yeah, I guess I don’t know. I’m always feeling I’m Japanese. I’m having business card and like these small things, but as a mentality, I’m not sure how I define myself.

But yeah, of course, especially when I’m outside, I’m Japanese. Right?

But for me, I feel, to be honest, uncomfortable when they say “you’re Japan’s #MeToo face” or something because I don’t feel that way, that I’m like carrying Japan or carrying #MeToo on me. So that’s something that sometimes I get like, a bit uncomfortable about.

And some in the Western right-wing social network circles say that Japan has no feminism. Japan has no feminist people. They don’t have queer people or anything like that. Do you have a response to those kinds of accusations?

Of course not. Uh-uh. Of course we do have a lot of amazing feminists. A lot of amazing LGBTQ community and like, it’s maybe not that visible like here in the States.

And, again, because we have really severe online attacks and so on, it is harder to be more visible, but it exists, of course. And this year, the sad news is again, I mean, no surprise, but our gender gap ranking was 125 (now 118 as of June 21) out of 146 countries. Of course, we have feminists, because we are not comfortable with that.

So yeah, no, I’ll say no to that.

On the flip side, access to information and news has been instrumental and social media has helped spread people’s stories in ways never done before. So how do you feel the Internet has impacted feminism and its discourse in Japan?

Yeah, well, to be honest with you, many amazing (feminists), I feel like they do have kind of a connection or roots outside. And I think it’s a lot to do with whether they have access to the information and they visibly see the amazing role model. But then again, now it’s easier to get translated and easier to reach this information through all different kinds of social network platforms. So I feel like it’s much more accessible, and shareable, our thoughts.

But, I guess—we can decide if you want to use the name or not—but the first time I met Chizuko Ueno, who’s like the most famous feminist from Japan, that was completely a moment that I felt I’m gonna abandon my 敬語 (polite Japanese), because she’s always called “Sensei.”

And she’s super cool. She’s like really casual, but then people around her are putting her like a god.

And if we do that, we never have feminism. Because we have such a vertical patriarchal system also within women. It’s so uncomfortable, because feminists should be all flat, or all at the same table. But in Japan, it’s like “sensei” or someone that you- I don’t know—I felt so uncomfortable, and I felt like we maybe gotta find a different language to speak about that.

I don’t want to talk with Sensei with keigo, because that’s not a straight, direct, fair way to communicate. And I think that’s something we need to break a bit. Open up.

Throughout the film, you seem to be constantly dealing with a duality of labels. Sometimes you’re a hero to some people, and then others are calling you a liar. When inundated with these images, or messages, how do you keep your own perspective? And especially with the media trying to mold you, how do you control yourself?

Yeah, well, I can control what I see myself, but I can never control what other people see myself. Right? And that was, I think, one of the most significant things that my sister kept telling me. ‘Do not go public because people will always remember you as a rape victim, nothing else, even if you do achieve something that you wanted to do.’

And in part of the way maybe that was true. But then I knew I can do more than that. But again, I have no control for what other people say. So I only can try to focus on myself.

How to get rid of these labels.

And the best thing I did was swim naked-

Right, your book. (Ito released “裸で泳ぐ”—”Hadaka de Oyogu” or Swimming Naked—in 2022, a collection of Ito’s essays written since 2017)

Yes. And I actually, I named it after when I went swimming naked in dark, in night time by Yakushima Island and there was a hot spring by the water, so I could just go there and it was so natural thing.

And then I realized in dark water, I was no one. I was a living creature like others in the water, and at that moment I felt right. And that’s how I see myself. So that’s how I can tell myself who I am, but again, I also stopped controlling—I mean I can never control—how ever people know me.

I think it’s gonna eventually change. But from where they’re seeing me, of course, it’s different. Like you said, some people, they think I’m lying or I shouldn’t defend myself—not shouldn’t—but they need to discover a different truth. That’s something I think I can’t feed them.

So it’s been an interesting journey to not to take in these labels.

Do you think more of your detractors are starting to learn, or are things starting to improve for you?

Actually, I don’t know, there’s so many of them, so I don’t know each one of them. But I encountered one woman who came to the screening at South by Southwest. And she said, ‘I completely misunderstood you before. And I think I might have said something really horrible, but now I understand.’

So, yeah, it’s through this film as well. I think it’s a different way of reaching (people). You gotta bear with me 104 minutes, and I’m surprised she felt that way. She came to the screening. That was like, whoa, thank you.

But yes, I think it takes some time, but there are chances that we can somehow communicate through storytelling.

Has there been any different reactions, compared to when you released the book, to this film?

Yes, well, because I haven’t released it in Japan, It’s been quite positive except maybe one audience (member) came to say something about … she was an older Asian woman. She was asking about why I was dressing up in a certain way, but anyway, only one maybe negative thing.

But because I think, right now, I’m almost always there in the theater, and it’s a more human connection …

But I don’t know, once I release this film in Japan or online, maybe, of course that would invite more room to maybe different reactions, but so far it’s been very supportive. Very engaging. Very positive.

Is there a release date for Japan?

No. Fingers crossed.

I wanted to move on to a few questions about the film as well.

Thank you, here we go.

So during the film, the act of traveling in a car seems very prominent. Was there any kind of intention behind doing that?

No, but very beginning of when I went public and when I started having all these threats, I was advised that I shouldn’t take any public transportation. I need to watch out what’s going to happen around me.

So I’m not taxi person—it’s so expensive in Japan—but for security reasons I started taking it a lot. So yeah, that just naturally became- And I like the space of a car. It’s very intimate. It’s like, you’re still in the city, but then you’re in your personal space.

Of course, it’s not completely personal, you have the driver, but it’s the moment I can feel (relaxed), with my friend filmmaker who has been filming me.

So yeah, it worked out well, I think in that way.

The filming, was she sticking by you like almost all the time or-

No, well, she was sticking with me. So I met her in London. She decided to come to Japan as a human shield. She’s Swedish, and she is not really a shooter. So she’s (whispering) horrible at the camera work.

Now she’s much better, she shoots for NatGeo and stuff, but that time, we called it ‘Hanna effect.’

She was with me maybe a couple years. Because at first we didn’t have funding, but then we could make the BBC-one hour version, so she was on board. So that moment, we had some funding so we were filming.

But after that, because … of course her home was in London, she went back, but I was actually living under her desk as well in London.

But whenever I had to come back for dealing with the legal case, I asked my other friend who is in Japan to film. And so sometimes I’m speaking to the person in English because they only understood English, or sometimes I’m speaking in Japanese because, behind the camera, they’re a Japanese speaker friend.

And then in terms of just that first moment of, ‘OK, I’m gonna work on this, and I’m going to make this into a film.’ When was that moment when you realized this was going to film?

I think that was when I moved to London. I was encouraged by Hanna (Aqvilin), the producer, and other filmmakers I’ve been talking to, knowing how hard it is to put these hard realities about sexual violence in Japan as news, but I knew that there is more space in film. …

But I never made a film, film before. I only have made TV, so we first reached out to TV network, so that we could just have the sense of how we can start, but it took some time, a lot of time, eight years to finish it. But um, yeah, so around 2017.

That moment, right after your attempted suicide. There’s that scene of that shot of you in the hospital. Was that actually you in the hospital while you were hospitalized?

Yeah. And the suicidal attempt video, we discovered only a year and a half later. Also the shot of the hospital, I didn’t remember filming it.

So it’s just my editor saying, ‘let’s just make sure what you have in your phone.’ But that was kinda of like, I wasn’t sure if this is OK to reveal, you know? I didn’t want my parents to see, even if that was my letter video for my parents, but I also felt like this is too much emotion.

So I didn’t feel fair to elect to put it in, but again, I had to ask myself, if I’m directing about someone else, would I? And I would.

But I had so many discussions with myself. I always said, let’s not show the actual footage, maybe just the sound, because I felt like it was too much, but yes, so I filmed it. Yeah.

It was just weird, like ‘what was I thinking?’

Because I wanted to ask like, what, did you think you were going to like use this? Like, wake up in the hospital room and you’re like, ‘OK,’ and start filming again or-?

No, I hope not! That would have been so- but then I guess these documenting moments became something of a habit even though I wasn’t thinking about filmmaking.

But according to my mom, after I shot the video—I don’t remember that as well—but I called her, and I didn’t send the video, so yeah.

One other thing I wanted to ask about was, so Investigator A said that he’d treat you to some ramen, did you ever get that ramen?

No.

No? He owes you a ramen then.

Hah, I love ramen, I love Jiro-kei, but now, that was the weirdest moment.

And it shocked me, because he never showed that kind of side, so it was really uncomfortable, and I wasn’t sure if I should have put it in the film, because that would kind of discredit him. But then in the end, we’re all human beings. … so I felt like I need to put in, along with this suicidal video message. I needed to put some of my uncomfortable footage.

Did anyone else particularly surprise you throughout this journey?

Yeah. There are some other whistleblowers that I couldn’t put in the film, but yes.

In your book, you say that —

本も読んでくれたの？ (You read my book too?)

もちろん (Of course). You mentioned it was published in 2017, just as the reforms for the laws were being introduced. And it didn’t really get — well the 2019-ish Flower Movement started, but it wasn’t until last year that it really kind of got changed. What do you feel needs to be done? I imagine there needs to be more done as well.

Of course, like, you know, even the name has become ‘不同意性交等罪,’ (‘Non-consensual Sexual Intercourse Crime) … They mention consent in the name of the law. It’s not in the law, you know? Consent is not considered in the law.

(The revised 2019 law raises the age of consent in Japan from 13 to 16 and outlines eight criteria to note whether the sex was non-consensual or not, including threats of violence or whether drugs or alcohol was involved. Ito notes in her book, however: “Society needs to educate and spread awareness that, instead of “If I don’t say NO, then I don’t mean NO,” the fact is that “If I don’t say YES, then I don’t consent.” p. 158)

But it’s great that they somehow, … even (though) we couldn’t make it in this time, let’s put it in the name so that people can acknowledge that, so that’s great. But if it’s not in the law, it’s not going to be criminalized and it’s not going to be—we can’t seek justice in our legal system, so that has to change.

And it’s a bit surprising that it didn’t change when I felt like there are so many amazing updates and the way the media covered these stories the past few years.

So I still do understand that there are gaps in these lawmakers, and that’s how I’m—it’s a big challenge for journalism—maybe not every journalist, but for the storyteller, how can we reach these people who is deciding these things? And that’s a big question and challenge that we still have left.

But yeah, we waited for a like hundred-what, 10, 12, 15 years, so yes, it’s about time to change. So hopefully, we will make more updates.

In terms of your future work, do you think you’re going to continue engaging in this?

Yeah.

And what is next?

Thank you. Well, you know, right after Sundance, I got the same question at the Q-and-A, and I was like, ‘yes. I’m just gonna go and drink the real wine,’ but of course, my producers were like, ‘they are asking about your next project,’ and I knew, but I felt like at that time, I’ve done my work. I’m going to just enjoy my life.

But then, of course, it’s taken eight years, so I’ve been working on other small projects … but now, because as a journalist, it’s always fun — I go to a place, I don’t particularly choose the topic.

I go to the community place where I’m interested in, and meet the person, and I want to tell the person’s story and see what’s behind their life, whatever that is.

So I’m ready to go hunting now.

And I have some certain area that I’m interested in, somehow in Amazon area, and also the border of Myanmar and Thailand. No reason, I’m just attracted to these two places. So I would love to go and find a story there. And I’m ready to make a new film. I realized how beautiful (it is) to be connected with the audience.

I never had a chance doing that through TV. Of course, I received e-mail, but this contact in theater and shared space is something else.

I think that about covers my questions.

All right. ありがとう！Thank you.